Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Goalie Drafting, Flyers Warriors, TIFH

Personally, I would love to see the Flyers start building from the net out and select Wallstedt. If he was available, which I doubt he would be.

Now, I know we already have Carter Hart, but, he struggled this year and having two young goaltenders until one of them proves themselves would be something that's never happened in Flyer land. At least in recent memory.

Personally, I would love to see the Flyers start building from the net out and select Wallstedt. If he was available, which I doubt he would be.

Now, I know we already have Carter Hart, but, he struggled this year and having two young goaltenders until one of them proves themselves would be something that's never happened in Flyer land. At least in recent memory.
- DraftandDestroy

The team in front of him is the issue. It starts with the leadership not leading the right way.

Petr Mrazek looks pretty good since he left philly doesn’t he. How about Cam Talbot this year too. Anthony Stolarz even had good numbers on a Anaheim team with a horrible record.

The leadership is lazy, complacent & don’t play, practice, or prepare the right way.

Move up and grab one of the top 5 d men. It’s such a glaring need. It will be a circus if they take a goalie. That shouldn’t even be a question.

From what I gather this is not even a particularly strong 1st round for Centers. Move up or trade the pick for a young NHL ready player.

The team in front of him is the issue. It starts with the leadership not leading the right way.

Petr Mrazek looks pretty good since he left philly doesn’t he. How about Cam Talbot this year too. Anthony Stolarz even had good numbers on a Anaheim team with a horrible record.

The leadership is lazy, complacent & don’t play the right way.
- Fopa21

That's why the club needs a rebuild, out with the older entitled players and in with the new.

That starts with acquiring draft picks and starting to build the club from the net out, which is what I was getting at. I know it's not going to happen, perhaps they can try to do it "on the fly", but, I prefer the real thing.

Bill has officially gone off the rails. Take a goalie at 13? Too many good players at 13.

Tbh I’ve always had a theory regarding drafting goalies.

I would just like to pick the best player available, period.

Outside of being a racist creep, or coming off a serious injury, I would take hard look at guys who had their showcase year affected by minor injuries.

Isn't that EXACTLY what we did with Coutourier and his Mono?

He slid, we jumped.

I would just like to pick the best player available, period.

Outside of being a racist creep, or coming off a serious injury, I would take hard look at guys who had their showcase year affected by minor injuries.

Isn't that EXACTLY what we did with Coutourier and his Mono?


He slid, we jumped.
- DrMidnite[/quote

Ironically we could’ve and probably would’ve taken Hamilton had coots not dropped. Debatable which pick would be better

Tbh I’ve always had a theory regarding drafting goalies.
- Im back

I mean... anyone want to hear it?

I would just like to pick the best player available, period.

Outside of being a racist creep, or coming off a serious injury, I would take hard look at guys who had their showcase year affected by minor injuries.

Isn't that EXACTLY what we did with Coutourier and his Mono?

He slid, we jumped.
- DrMidnite

At #13 you can probably start to look at drafting for need in a draft that's only really 9 or 10 really really good players deep. The organization's needs are many, personally I think we need centers and a top pairing defenceman more than anything.

When Couturier's contract is up in 2022 he'll be 29 years old, signing him to a long term expensive deal at 29 years of age would be a mistake in my opinion. Expensive being a 7-9 million dollar deal for a soon to be declining player, if you believe in the historical data. Some players play really well into their mid 30's though, who knows with him?

They should trade him during his last year like they did with both Carter and Richards, who netted us Couturier, Voracek, Brayden Schenn (Frost & Farabee) and Wayne Simmonds.

I'm always a BPA kinda guy but if the Flyers have a goalie a top their board when it comes to 13, take him.

It's the most important position and outside of Hart who knows who else will fare in the NHL. Nothing wrong with a deep goalie pool.

That's why the club needs a rebuild, out with the older entitled players and in with the new.

That starts with acquiring draft picks and starting to build the club from the net out, which is what I was getting at. I know it's not going to happen, perhaps they can try to do it "on the fly", but, I prefer the real thing.
- DraftandDestroy

Completely agree with you. Hart is only 22 though so “the net” part I think they have. Now start with D then down the middle. I agree with you there

At #13 you can probably start to look at drafting for need in a draft that's only really 9 or 10 really really good players deep. The organization's needs are many, personally I think we need centers and a top pairing defenceman more than anything.

When Couturier's contract is up in 2022 he'll be 29 years old, signing him to a long term expensive deal at 29 years of age would be a mistake in my opinion. Expensive being a 7-9 million dollar deal for a soon to be declining player, if you believe in the historical data. Some players play really well into their mid 30's though, who knows with him?

They should trade him during his last year like they did with both Carter and Richards, who netted us Couturier, Voracek, Brayden Schenn (Frost & Farabee) and Wayne Simmonds.
- DraftandDestroy

You know I strongly agree, but just yesterday was it not you said there is no point discussing this as it is not gonna happen.

The outside hope is that Couts wants out OR signs for a tradeable contract and doesn't have a NMC like Hayes.

Tbh I’ve always had a theory regarding drafting goalies.
- Im back

Ok gonna have to follow here this is long to explain but bill comments on drafting goalie at 13 fits into my theory

Ok gonna have to follow here this is long to explain but bill comments on drafting goalie at 13 fits into my theory
- Im back

Go on, tell us your "theory".

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Goalie Drafting, Flyers Warriors, TIFH
- bmeltzer

I am baffled by this take. What about Ersson, Sandstrom, Ustimenko? I thought they all had NHL potential?

In general, teams that have stronger than average scouting departments will be better off, as the scouting part gives them an advantage, especially when scouting from leagues that did not play or barely played. To this end, Red Wings have 12 picks this year. They will probably spend half of them on Euro, esp. Swedish players, given their past.

Speaking always of how GMs like our can't just do their homework and trade for underrated defenseman, since they don't exist, now this...

https://www.masslive.com/...rt-of-boston-defense.html

Go on, tell us your "theory".
- DraftandDestroy

I’m complying my data for my theory because I know I’m gonna be picked apart lol give me a minute

I’m complying my data for my theory because I know I’m gonna be picked apart lol give me a minute
- Im back

Not very many great goaltenders are taken early in the draft, they're just so hard to predict when it comes to their abilities at the highest level.

Most of the other names that most people would want will be gone by #13.

IF a miracle happens and these players slide down for whatever reason these two are who I hope the Flyers grab.

Brandt Clarke
- Right hand shot, would compliment any partner in the top 4

Mason McTavish
- One of the better shooters in the draft, tenacious and physical with extreme 2nd and 3rd effort

Otherwise I think realistically the 12 players I would be interested will be gone and out of the bunch that is left and did not get the scouting they deserve, these two are my selections.

Nikita Chibrikov
- The Russian factor! The Flyers don't seem to do well with Russians, but it's a stigma that needs to be removed quickly. He could be a difference maker for the club even if it takes a few years to bring him over.

Aatu Raty
- Obviously he has been dropping ranks this past season due to performance, but has tons of upside and could become a steal much like Couturier in his draft year.

Another player I think will be gone, but may slide is:

Fabian Lysell

Dominik Hasek - 10th round pick
Patrick Roy - 3rd round pick
Marty Brodeur - late 1st round pick
Ken Dryden - 3rd round pick
Bernie Parent - never drafted
Billy Smith - 5th round pick
Tony Esposito - never drafted
Ed Belfour - never drafted
Curtis Joseph - never drafted
Ron Hextall - 6th round pick

-------------------------------------------

Mark Andre-Fleury - 1st overall
Grant Fuhr - 8th overall
Carey Price - 5th overall

Not very many great goaltenders are taken early in the draft, they're just so hard to predict when it comes to their abilities at the highest level.

True that. Many memories of this (wasn't Ouellet picked early?). But it's not like skaters are safe choices. I got spoiled by some great picks with Richards, Carter, Giroux, Coots etc. but reality has set in with Morin, Rubtsov, Patrick, JvR (sorry, just not a fan and haven't been since the beginning when he went#3), and others. First round skaters are crapshoots too . I'm not sold on Farrabee though he had a great year and Frost is another question mark. I'm with Bill - go for well scouted d-men, only a forward if a top one drops in your lap because of an unfortunate social media post the night before, and since neither of those is going to happen, take the goalie if he's available. It's not like Ustimenko or any of these other guys looks like the real deal, and, sure, Hart could go on to be Rask (#24 overall pick) but he could just as easily go on to become Andrew Raycroft. (Great trade, Laffs!)

Not very many great goaltenders are taken early in the draft, they're just so hard to predict when it comes to their abilities at the highest level.
- DraftandDestroy

Yes 100% correct... the miss % on goalies is extremely high overall but the miss % on top goalies of the draft (usually 1 or 2) goalies per year is actually not bad. Like bill said this for example this wallstedt kid this year.

This leads me to my theory

So no one wants to take goalies in first round anymore because of bust %...

So I’ll start with Carey price because he was a can’t miss goalie for tracking and theory example

So price drafted in 2005, goalies generally(and shouldn’t hit nhl for 4-5 years) so they can fully develop. That’s pretty close. So if a team drafts price in 2005 (round 1) my THEORY is you have to draft the top goalie in draft in either year 5-6 after drafting price and so on... here’s why

For example had Montreal drafted top goalie prospect in 5-6 years (depending on top goalie prospect for those 2 years) they would’ve taken either campbell(2010) or Gibson (2011) Gibson was the higher touted of the 2 at the time. So they should’ve taken Gibson in 2011.

Price would’ve just begun his nhl career and Gibson would’ve started his development. Fast forward 5 years you know how price on bridge deal and Gibson as backup.

If the backup is good (which Gibson is ) then you trade price instead of giving huge contract. Not much difference between the 2 goalies. Except massive money at that point.

So fast forward had they followed this path and drafted Gibson in 2011 you need to draft top goalie prospect in either ‘16 or ‘17

That was either hart ‘16 or oettinger’17.

And so on ....

In this theory hart of drafted in 2016 he wouldn’t have needed to be up yet until this year. Montreal would most likely have Gibson entering prime and hart backup and so it goes as would’ve been when they had price entering prime and Gibson backup.

The miss ratio is much lower at the most important position in hockey (goalie) I think under this theory. As bill pointed out about picking wallstedt fits my theory to a tee. Hart in ‘16 wallstedt’21. Granted hart is a little farther ahead due to being called up so early (which almost never happens at goalie position) but it still fits because hart not getting massive deal anytime soon although it does throw timeline off a bit

The draft didn't exist when Bernie Parent was a junior aged player for the Niagara Falls Flyers. The Bruins owned his NHL rights from the time he was 16 years old.